Is It Rigged?

Nick Momrik66 Comments

I haven’t posted since Tuesday, so I thought I’d give a quick update of how it has been going at the tables. In one word…shitty! The bad beats are coming in from all directions. I flop 2 pair and someone calls me down going runner runner for a bigger two pair. I flop the nut straight and someone hits a 3 outter on the river for a bigger straight. I flop a full house with the hammer and someone spikes an ace on the river with his A7 for a bigger full house. I flop trips and someone calls me down hitting a 2 outter on the river for a full house. These are just a couple of examples. The other day in a span of 10 minutes I got beat on the turn or river 5 times by someone with 5 outs or less.

It’s simply impossible to come out ahead when the other players are pulling cards out of their ass like this. It’s at times like this when it really makes you wonder if online poker is rigged. I know it’s now, but I’d be lying if I didn’t admit the thoughts enter my head once in awhile. I can’t complain about the horrible players I guess, but it would be nice if my monsters would hold up to those drawing dead (2-4 outs) once in awhile. It’s extremely hard to recover from losing a 20 BB pot that you were the clear favorite in. Especially when it happens more than once.

Sorry about the bad beat whining, but I needed to get it out of my system somehow. Screaming at my monitor hasn’t seemed to help at all.

66 thoughts on “Is It Rigged?”

  2. Well, it would seem to be a question of it being “too cheap” to call. I know that I sometimes get on the other side of this problem and call 1 bet (in limit) at the flop when I should fold. Then, when I have hit 1/2 of my runner-runner, I know feel obligated to call again. Stupid? Sure. But now, if there are many others like me, that’s why you’re getting beaten by dumb chasers.

    Now, in no-limit I don’t do that. First of all, because when I call the flop, I know that unless I’m in last position I could see a MASSIVE raise that forces me to abandon my call. I also know I could see that same raise/bet on the turn or river — it FORCES me to respect the math.

    No-limit doesn’t prevent calling, just DUMB calling.

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  3. And don’t get me wrong…I love that people are calling me on all these long shots, because I realize that in the long run, the math will even out and I’ll come out with the best of it. The long run just seems so far away right now though…

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  4. I have played thousands of hands of Texas-Hold’Em at Party Poker (ring games, all different limits). If you think for one minute that the games are legitimate you are dead wrong. Party-Poker is rigged so that eventually YOU WILL LOSE ALL OF YOUR MONEY – period.

    I am 39 years old and have been playing poker in B&M environments for twenty five years, that’s right since about age 14. I have an Associate of Science degree and I am currently working on a Bachelor’s of Science in Mechanical Engineering on a part time basis at on of our nations leading technical colleges, I have also programmed turnkey computer applications related to mechanical drafting and design. In other words, I didn’t “just fall off the boat” and I just didn’t start playing poker yesterday. I am a consistent B&M winner. I’ve been in plenty of crooked B&M games in my time and I can tell the difference between a legitimate game and a crooked game. Unfortunately, I kept telling myself that Party-Poker “had to be legit, I mean come on why wouldn’t they be. . .” Several thousand dollars later, I wised up.

    All of the posts that I have read on this site that claim Party-Poker is a rip-off and the descriptions that they give of how the hands go and how the customer service is terrible, are right on the money. It’s the people who claim that Party-Poker is legitimate that are the crack-pots and not the “conspiracy theorists.” Let me tell you something – Corporations are legally bound to do one thing and one thing only – increase the wealth of the share holders, at any cost. To think that they would not be dishonest is incredibly naïve.

    I know what you pro-online-poker people are thinking and what you will say to this post. “Where is your proof, post your hand histories.” It would be pointless to post hand histories when they are nothing but ASCII text files that can be manipulated by anyone at will – the debate lives on. Instead of relying on hand histories why don’t you trust your intuition, your intelligence, and your gut? They should be screaming at you that you are in a crooked game. You know when you get beat by someone who stays in the pot (no matter how much you raise) with absolutely nothing only to catch the single card in the deck that can beat you that something is not right (this happens time and time again). The something that’s not right is this – THE SITE IS RIGGED.

    The best thing you can do is to STAY AWAY FROM PARTY-POKER. If you already have an account, close it while you still have some money left. I also have had similar experiences with other on-line gambling sites (not poker) and have come to the same conclusions – THEY ARE RIGGED SO THAT YOU WILL LOSE.

    YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

    PS. – I am still waiting for Party-Poker to actually close my account, they don’t seem to want to let me go. If I try to log on, the screen says something to the effect that my account has been “temporarily frozen”. This is after several emails, and phone calls. Meanwhile my sensitive personal information remains in their system even after I have screamed at those idiots at customer service to DELETE MY ACCOUNT – If you’re from PP and you read this – DELETE MY ACCOUNT ALREADY YOU IDIOTS. Same thing goes for Epassporte (another rip-off) they also will not let go of my account. Why would a legitimate company behave in this manner?

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  8. WOW! I am sensing a lot of hostility. You may want to consider seeing a therapist. And possibly reading Zen and the Art of Poker.

    Also, I know that if I were that consisant of a B&M player, and I knew that “online poker is rigged,” I would stick to B&M games… just my $.02. Fortunately for me, I play at PokerRoom, where everyone knows it’s rigged. 😉

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  9. Although I play at party poker alot, and although I dont consider myself a great player, and although I have taken my share of bad beats I will say this. OF COURSE ITS FIXED.

    Its a known fact that no random number generator ever created by man is truly random. Im not saying that crazy things dont happen in real life games, they do, but when u lose 7 all ins in a row and get beat by a 2 outer everytime, something is not right.

    But really its not surprising. its like people who think the point spread of a game is designed to get action on both sides. Fools believe that. Smart money knows that the point spread is designed to get all the money on the wrong side.

    You see Vegas(and all humans in general) is greedy. they dont want a cut(a measly 10%) they want all ur money.

    Sure Party poker tells u they are on the level. They have to. but dont be a sucker. they want all ur money. they want u to lose and put more money in. its all about cash flow. Newplayers tend to win at first then cant win at all. sure a skilled player will beat a chump, but when the computer is in elimination mode, hope that ur not the one targeted for elimination.

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  10. You guys crack me up.

    I don’t care how random a random generator is…that still doesn’t mean the game is fixed. Someone has to win the hand, it just happens not to be you. Get over it. Sure Party Poker wants all our money. I want all your money too. Party can’t beat me in poker though…only other players can beat me. Party doesn’t have anything to gain by making me lose and another player win. They get their rake no matter what. Party wins whether I win or lose…they could care less as long as I keep playing and they keep getting their rake.

    Stop with the conspiracy theories please! I’m gonna die laughing over here.

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  11. Nick,

    Im sure ur a good poker player, probably better than me even, but u dont know anything about the business of gambling. I tried to elude to it earlier, but maybe I didnt do a good enough job of drawing up a comparision, so let me try again.

    If u believe that all party poker wants is their rake u are living in a fantasy world. The same thing holds true in sports gambling. All but a small minority of people(those who win) believe the point spread is designed to stimulate action on both sides. This is not the case and anyone who believes it will find themselves out of money. Rather the point spread is designed to get all the money on the wrong side so you lose and vegas keeps everything. Do u think for a minute all those fancy sportsbooks were built with a measly 10 percent? The same thing with online poker. It would not surprise me if the people that write the software recieve a continuous cut of the profit. thus the more profit available the more they make.

    remember none of these companies are in the US and they all invlove money and gambling. Only a fool would believe that they are legit.

    never in the history of mankind has any gmabling enterprise been legit, accept when forced to by law. If you give someone an opportunity to rip you off they will. the amazing thing with online poker is we dont just give them an opportunity, we defend them and justify them as well.

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  12. Your sports betting comparison doesn’t make sense for online poker. If I lose a hand, Party Poker doesn’t get what I lose, the other player does. If I win a hand, Party Poker doesn’t get the pot, I do. Party Poker gains absolutely nothing if they were to rig the games…think about it. They get rake no matter what happens (as long as the pot is big enough). Why would they rig something when no matter what, they get the rake and nothing from the my (or the winning player’s) part of the pot.

    Think about it…

    And of course the odds and point spreads on games are made to make the bookmakers money. That’s a no brainer. If they weren’t setup to get the suckers to bet then, the bookies wouldn’t make any money. But please do not compare sports betting to poker…it’s not even in the same ballpark or remotely the same situation.

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  13. The reason they would fix it is because the more money you lose the more money you deposit again and the more money they make. it simple cash flow. and they want all the money flowing into their pockets. the best place to see how fixed things are is to play in a sit and go. sure u might think thats not fixed, after all I put in my $20.00 and they take $3.00 but when u play in a game the computer goes on elimanation mode to get the game over with as fast as possible. that where most or ur bad beats occur. At some point the computer wont let you win no matter what u do. funny but I went from winning or finishing top 3 60% of the time, to barely able to hold on to 4th.

    when I quit playing party poker guess what happened? why they sent me $20.00. I turned that into $250.00, and guess what? I couldnt win a game. They want to induce you to keep depositing money. the more u deposit the more they make.

    its absolutely rigged. but I will still play anyway

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  14. If you think it’s rigged and yet you still play…that’s the sign of a problem. Only people with problems play a game they think they can’t beat. You might be better off visiting the Gambler’s Anonymous web site.

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  15. I didnt say I didnt win. I just said its rigged. I stick to tournies(which I dont believe are rigged) and omaha hi/lo.

    If you know how the comp. works, then you can play and win.

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  16. In poker someone always has to lose. It’s a pretty simple concept actually. Nobody wins all the time. Not even the pros in a B&M casino…I guess that must be rigged too. I’m never playing poker again.

    HA!

    You aren’t playing against the computer so knowing how it “works” doesn’t have any influence on whether you win or lose. You need to beat the other players and that’s how you end up winning.

    Let me get this right…when you win, it’s not rigged, but when you lose it’s rigged. Now I understand.

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  17. When did I say that when I win its not rigged but when I lose its rigged? I never said that.

    What I did say is that these sites are all located in some distant land I couldnt even point out on a map. I also said that all these sites invlove money and gambling.

    But since you didnt understand that how could you possibly understand my comparision to sports gambling. You cant so let me once again make my point.

    You see in sports gambling the sports book(or bookie) supposedly makes their money on the vig. or juice. thats the extra 10% premium on each dollar waged. the theory goes that a point spread is set to stimulate betting on both sides of the event, so that there is an even amount of wagering on both sides with the sports book(or bookie) making a tidy 10% profit with no real effort.

    In Poker the house or card room takes a small cut of each pot(the rake). The theory goes that since they make their money on percetnage of the pot, the outcome of the card game, from the houses point of view is meaningless.

    So to goes the theory in online poker. The poker site just holds the games and takes their cut. Nice and clean and simple.

    What you probably didnt know is that as far as casino poker goes. its not a huge money maker for them. in fact some some casinos have closed down their poker rooms. Just 15 minutes from Foxwoods is another casino, mohegan sun. They used to have a card room but closed it down, due to lack of profit. It turns out its more pofitable for them to have slots and blackjack and all the other table games where the odds are in their favor. Casino never do anything where you get a fair shake. In casino poker they cant manipulate anything to their favor(although they could increase the rake I suppose), with slots and craps and blackjack they can.

    In sports gambling the line is used to manipultae idiots(or what I call Joe Public) into betting all the money on the wrong side of the game. this way the sports book or bookie makes a huge profit. thats why people always lose in sports gambling. But the few who make money know this bet accordingly and win on a 70-80% basis. An online casino works in much the same way. there is just not enough profit in a straight game.

    The software is desgned to get people in games and then get them out and back in games. thats why in sit and go’s so many bad beats occur. Once the game starts, as far as the poker site is concerened, it just as well could end. So the software quickly eliminates people so that they keep playing and putting more money in play in the system.

    Party poker is now advertising during NBA games as well as on other national media outlets. Do you think they are this big because of the rake?

    So you can be as snide and sarcastic as you want. I could care less. if we were playing at a table together I might beat you or you might beat me, thats poker, but if we were playing online the outcome would be determined by software code. and thats just how it goes.

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  18. if we were playing at a table together I might beat you or you might beat me, thats poker, but if we were playing online the outcome would be determined by software code. and thats just how it goes.

    So you’re saying that at a table it’s not determined by the dealer? It’s exactly the same thing. The software gives you your cards just like a live dealer does.

    Online poker is NOT rigged!

    And…so many bad beats occur online because well, you’re playing so many more hands. It’s easy math…play more hands and you’ll get more of each thing to happen. Track your data…the percentages still hold for online poker. I have solid proof in my hand histories. Over the long run my pocket aces hold up as much as they are supposed to and I get beat by bad hands just as much as the numbers say I should.

    I’m 99.9% sure online poker is not rigged. I’m only leaving off that extra 0.1% because you can never be totally sure about much.

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  20. nick i think you just like to argue.

    now i dont know if i think its rigged or not….but

    the fact of the matter is, your point of, “why would they care who wins and who loses?! they get there rake anyway!” is actually not 100% valid. If you are a new player, i’m gonna give you bonuses and good cards so you make some money. Yay, new player is happy. they go to bigger games, where the RAKES ARE BIGGER, and they have the new player lose there money to someone else! genius. so your whole theory of they get the same amount of money no matter who wins it isnt true, because if they can induce players to play in games with bigger pots, they get more money.

    and actually the programming for holdem doesnt give you the same chances as a deck, but its pretty damn close. PokerStars is probably the most legit site. THey have a 3rd unassociated party check them all the time.

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