I just read an interesting thread over at Full Contact Poker. It’s about Party Poker Cracked.
…I will not call a raise, or place a bet more than $5 preflop with AA, KK, or QQ! If I bet $2 and it goes to $10 I am usually going to lay that hand down (fold). I almost always check these hands. After the flop, if I don’t get a set I usually fold if there is a bet over $1.
I need to find out where this guy plays. Who in their right mind wouldn’t go all-in pre-flop with pocket rockets? I don’t care how many opponents are already in the pot or how many call after you, but you’re getting more than the correct odds on any call in this situation in a ring game. The author of this book probably walks around his home wearing a tin foil hat. I’m suprised he even uses the Internet. Doesn’t he know that the FBI is tracking our every move. HA HA!
I’m amazed at how many people still believe that online poker is rigged. Why on earth would these companies risk going under when all they have to do is run a legitimate business and make hundreds of millions a year?
Nick Momrik 
I’ve read this entire post, and there is a lot of sense and a lot of idiocy on both sides. Anyone who claims that PP, Pokerstars et al is ‘Definitely’ rigged or ‘Definitely’ not is an idiot. Pure and simple. The fact is, until somebody does a detailed statistical analysis of hand histories, nobody knows.
I have noticed many anomalies with both pokerstars and and PartyPoker. However, that alone is meaningless. Just because things frequently feel fishy on these sites doesn’t mean they are rigged – the random number generator might just be creating ‘odd’ hands, without any dodgy dealings going on.
Somebody who is better with numbers than I am needs to start constructing a database of hands played, and answer the following questions:
1.) In SNGs, where one player goes all in, does the all in player lose more frequently than they statistically should? Making all in players lose more frequently would speed up games
2.) How often Do the ‘big 3’ of AA, KK, and QQ go up against each other? Is this more frequently than statistics would predict? Focusing only on these 3 hands rather than all pocket pairs makes most sense, because most players will not fold AA, KK or QQ preflop, and so we can assume that if these pockets are dealt there will be a raising war culminating in an all-in race.
3.) By opening multiple new accounts, discerning whether ‘new players’ have greater luck than more experienced players.
These are the three main provable/falsifiable claims made about poker sites. If they are true, they should be fairly easily provable. In order for the variance to be noticable by players – rather than it just being our paranoia – it should show up statistically fairly fast. If anybody would be interested in actually trying this out – particularly if somebody has a detailed record of 500+ hands on a poker site – then please contact me by posting below. Cheers.
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it’s five it the morning it took me good 90min to read all above… i just searched for some forums about this after i read the party poker cracked, i dont know i am not winnig nor loosing…about even, after almost a year of playing at PP and nowhere else, have played about 3000-5000 hands.
I think question is not whether PP is riged or not. Question is whether you can consistenty win there or not. If its true that only 5-10% people consistently win than what do you expect? few would admin they are among 95% of people…. and actually blaming everything else.. how funny ha??
“Game is rigged for sure”… ok i agree but only to the level you can still win if you belong to the right group of people and to the level you wouldnt notice…. please show me one player who is winning and claiming(prooving!) that its rigged…
“patterns” … there are some sure… eg. you loose with big pocket pairs often… how naive to think you cannot loose.. strange river… shit happens… if you play super tight-aggressive you win (i dont play like that its not fun and thats why i lay bad beats like you talk about here… because many people are playing for fun and calling with crapy hands)
“cash out curse” … actually this happend to me too but still dont believe its rigged this way..
“technical problems of rigged algorithm” … i can imagine software dealing you better cards (eg AA more often but that works for everybody), can not imagine software taking into account 10 people’s decisions… impossible… maybe heads up…
“sum up” … every logic says it should be rigged.. every logic say if its rigged its done way you should not care… if playing just for fun you dont mind loosing anyway, if you play proffesionaly you are winning anyway, if you try to start playing proffesionally with no success you dont have skills and blaming rigged casino but you would loose if it wasnt rigged anyway…
DID I MISS ANYTHING?
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Hi all,
I’m a poker player, I have been looking into Party Poker as I have heard mixed things. I created an account and deposited the minimum of $25.
I played $0.02 / $0.04NL cash tables (4 at a time) for 10,000 hands.
I found over this hand sample, I was down over 600 big bets with AK, AA was in very slight profit (11 big bets) and KK was showing a loss. I chose to never limp with AA or KK (I raised either 3.5 x BBs or twice the current pot size if limpers.)
I had many strange outcomes which I tried to look at objectively. When I play, I set mine (it’s quite a standard play where you call any pocket pair to try and hit a set – either by limping or calling a raise up to 10% of the opponents stack size. I found, a statistically significant amount of times I was getting beat by 2 outs. For example – me (33), board 355 – all in, call from AA, turn card (A) to provide a bigger full house etc…(just an example of frequent 2 outer outdraws).
After analysing the 10,000 hands – I have just about broke even on Part Poker. It is an ongoing obnomaly to out flop your opponent(s) by a significant margin (leaving them with 8% – 18% win chance), getting all of your money in then getting outdrew. Other examples where my AK hitting TJQ flops, with one opponent holding a set on the flop and getting all the money in there for the board to pair and beat my nuts flopped hand. Boards do pair, by the turn there are 9 outs for it to pair and 1 for their quads, the statistics where again statistically significant against this happening as frequently as it did by quite a large margin.
I totally agree with all of your points raised above why or why not it is or could be rigged, sadly I’m not in a position to say if Party Poker is or is not fully legitimate in it’s ethics but I did know that 10,000 hands would not PROVE 100% what people are saying.
I am sure of this, and I make this statement unreservidly as a profitable online & live poker player on other sites. Over the 10,000 hand sample played, there ARE more than an average occurance of strange 2 or 4 out outdraws when all in on the flop with the best hand.
Please take from this what you will, please feel free to shoot me down (perhaps saying 10k hands isn’t enough), I need to learn how to play properly etc…I don’t mind. I am just letting people know these key facts:
(A) I play profitable online poker and have done for over 4 years playing 5 days a week on average.
(B) I did this test, specifically low stake to not risk a meaningful amount of my bankroll. Cards dealt are cards dealt at any stake once you’re moneys in 92% favourite on the flop.
(C) I hope this is of some use or informative value to people as the 10,000 took me some time.
(D) As a resulting factor of doing this test, I won’t be playing at Party Poker with any of my money (I usually play $5 / $10NL – 4 tables). As far as what I have seen, it looks like there MAY be some truth in it – and I am not closed minded.
I didn’t find myself not believing my opponents play at the tables (I could understand them calling with sets or over cards…that’s the idea when I play poker – to get the money in and get called by a hand that I have dominated). I actually found myself dissapointed at the frequency this dominated hand would draw out by the river defying odds. My poker tracker supports a great feature called “EV” (Expected Value), exactly what is this!? (Sorry if you know this):
You go all in on the flop for $100 with QQ, AKs calls.
(This is virtually a 50 / 50 – for this example I will count it as 50% 50% for simplicity).
Your opponent hits an Ace. He wins the $200 pot.
As far as results go in money, your opponent in up $100, you are down $100.
But, 1/2 the time you’ll win that $200 pot – so your EV would be at +$100 if you lost as it should be break even but your $100 down.
The reason I go into this is my EV was through the roof over the 10,000 hands! This tells me, I should be much more up showdowning the hands I have than I was.
I hope this helps some of you make decisions on where you would like to play. I won’t suggest an alternative as I don’t want to appear bias.
I wish you all the best of luck, and please be nice to one another, provide information and work together to trust or uncover fraudulent activities within poker.
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Robert Eagle does not exist, period. Is just a fraud to sell that book full of shit
The people behind that also have a team writting notes and commentents in a lot of forums, blogs, etc, encouraging people to shove their U$S 50 to buy the book and telling them how fantastic is it, but its a clear fraude. One more of tons here in the internet !!!
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I hate arguments like why would they rig it blah blah blah, why would you fail to recognize history? (hardly even talking about poker sites) Sometimes things are too big to fail. Besides who would hold them accountable? The international police? Probably not considering online gambling is illegal in the US.
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[…] most popular posts have been those involving discussions about online poker being rigged. Both of those posts must rank pretty high in the search engines. One of the things I hope for the […]
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if you really think all that shows on the is rigged then think again. that who goes on any replay or tv is not rigged. Those tournys and ringgames which are rigged doesnt show anywhere else than on your computer and the “opposites” computer, either bot or what it is for a person who plays.
Poker online is definatly rigged no matter what people say some of the bb cant be explained and is happening way to often than live poker is. Try live poker and see, throw 150 hands and play that KK or AA, if they get beaten just on that round by a flush or straight, and you played it like raise x3-4 its rigged as heck. I mean, one time is okey. But it is not okey after it have happen like about a 150 times? I mean, then it is freakin’ rigged. No matter what you who dont believe this online poker is rigged. Think again! What I would like to know, is what network is not rigged around the internet? That’s what I lwould like to know, not if its rigged or not, that is surely nothing to discuss anymore. And yes, I have played over 15000 hands on both pp and ps, even microgaming is bligged in their special kind of ways. Its difference in how them are rigged but something is too fishy to be true, and after it have happened over 50-150 times then its time to reconsider whats going on. So many fake sites, really it is.
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They cant do anything which is not happening in that country is none of them busniness, really.
The spectre here of rigged sites is not of the amount you have been delt aa, kk or qq, ak, aq or aj. It is from the bad beats that happen in a sort of way which is not logic at all. This is the way to find out for sure if a site is rigged, and after like 15000 hands you would definatly see if those AA or KK gets beaten over and over and over again by players/bots who are not what they seems to be. Good player or bad player, dont care, dont matter. It is the output from the cards that matter here and here is where the rigging comes into play. It’s just like in the other tourny here, on pokerstars, I had played like 188 hands and were running good, what I couldnt understand was were all the good cards were? Cuz of the about last 100-150 cards I only got ugly cards. So a little later, maybe 5-10 hands after this I get a reasonable Ax and raises a bit, hits the ace and keep it running, lost a whole bunch, ofcourse a stragith that was against me. So after another hands been played here again I got fooled up into something which after all odds should go your way if playing it right, but NO ofcourse another bb against me. So now the sickest of it all. So sick it makes me wanna crap all over the site really. Well, I buy in for another tourny right after I went out in the other, and what do I not get here on my first hand played? Yes, ofcourse, Im getting dealth AA right away? I mean, if there is not something or someone rigging this up. I have only three words to say: Kiss My Ass! I have played live I know what the deal is here and how you play poker. This is the worst scenario of all the rigged “action” that is going on around the internet! I wish someone could make a site which clears it out which site is most clean and etc. That is something that is needed, so the sites can see that they cannot run just as they want to, even if there’s no laws over them to correct whats going on!
Hope some understood here and whats going on cuz to those who do not believe online poker is rigged? Ye it is rigged, not all the time but certain times and over certain blinds it is, also certain tournaments are not rigged while others are.
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